Thursday, February 12, 2009

THE MARCEL PIEZAS ASSAULT CASE (Pass to others so that they may know)

Sobrang nakaka-ngitngit 'to…

I am posting this the way I received it. It’s an email sent by my sister from our cousin. MARCEL PIEZAS is my nephew. Please repost if you can or pass on to others so that they may know. We don’t want this to happen to our children, nieces & nephews, brothers & sisters.

I tried checking the links mentioned below but the blog and the album no longer exists.

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: (undisclosed)
To: (undisclosed)
Cc: (undisclosed)
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:47:45 PM
Subject: Fw: PASS TO OTHERS SO THAT THEY MAY KNOW - MARCEL PIEZAS ASSAULT CASE

The incident below involved a relative, MARCEL PIEZAS... Scary but true and real ...


--- On Tue, 2/10/09, (undisclosed)@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: (undisclosed)
Subject: PASS TO OTHERS SO THAT THEY MAY KNOW - MARCEL PIEZAS ASSAULT CASE
To: (undisclosed)
Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 9:58 PM

I was shocked when I received this email because Marcel is my nephew. There is no way that this guy is capable of doing any harm to anyone. UNBELIEVABLE!

After reading about the incident below, I clicked on the embedded Multiply site and then followed it up with another linked site from there. Found an album with some of their party scenes, and posters of their past events. I'm now effectively scared. This was disturbingly enlightening.

http://stoyaboys.multiply.com/photos/album/5/WARNING_Dont_view_this_album#



From: Celine Piezas
Date: February 10, 2009 3:38:10 AM GMT+08:00
To: Ateneo 2C <2c_parents_ahs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: PASS TO OTHERS SO THAT THEY MAY KNOW



February 9, 2009

Dear Ateneo parents, students and STOYA members,

Three months back, I found out that an "OPEN PARTY" organized by students of the Assumption was booked at our village clubhouse. In this event, the venue meant for 300 pax was packed with as many as 800, due to the zealousness of its organizers to maximize its earnings. Many of the attendees had no recourse but to spill over to the parking area. That night, a nasty brawl occurred right outside the venue, and the security incident report outlined the destruction caused to the clubhouse facilities, the sight of inebriated teen-agers holding bottles of liquor roaming the streets, and the discovery of used condoms on the park grounds and alleys the following day. (You can verify this yourself.) We were on an out of town trip when all these happened and I could only imagine the chaos that went on.

Last January 16, 2009 my son Marcel Piezas, a 2nd year Ateneo student, pleaded with me to allow him to attend an "OPEN PARTY" organized by 3rd year Poveda High School students at Greenmeadows. I warned him about the untoward incidents in our village but due to his persistent pleas, reassurances, acceptance of certain conditions (e.g. curfew) coupled with guilt trips of being labelled an outcast once denied of participation, I succumbed to his appeal.

That night at around half past eleven, I found myself praying for Marcel's protection, possibly owing to vague intuition, not knowing what was going just a stone's throw away.

At around 11:30 p.m., after having danced with around three other girls, Marcel asked for a dance with Ms. A (name withheld). The dance was uneventful except for the part where she asked Marcel if she could take a picture of them, which my son agreed to. Immediately after the dance, Marcel thanked her, and excused himself since his 12 midnight curfew was fast approaching. He and his classmate B (name withheld) proceeded to exit the dance hall to meet four other classmates who were already at the parking area.

Three meters from the exit, two teen-aged boys came out of the hall together with Ms. A, the girl Marcel just danced with, blaringly asking, "Sino ang nangbastos sa pinsan ko? Kayo ba? Kayo ba?" It seems that, Ms. A pointed out my son to the two boys, wilfully or otherwise, prompting them to pull his shoulder and start punching him on the head, which caused a laceration and multiple hematoma. The two boys shouted invectives at Marcel (e.g. "Sabihin mo sa nanay mo, malansa ang kaniyang puk_", "pu__ ina mo, gusto mo mamatay?", etc.) and repeatedly slapped him. After a while, the group of three had swelled to five (5). They were joined by other boys (names withheld). A few seconds more, and the crowd had expanded to around twenty (20), arm to arm, they formed a circle around my son. They continued to punch, slap, insult and spit at my defenseless son. One of them even ordered him to kneel down and apologize, which he did, even if he knew he was not guilty of anything, if only to stop the beating. After his apology, he was punched hard on the mouth, causing a cut on the lower lip, and three front teeth to turn mobile.

There were big bodied bouncers hired during the party, and some village guards manning the gates. Neither of them lifted a finger to help my son. All they uttered was "Tama na yan." The lone defender of Marcel was a school mate, Boy B (name withheld), who at that instant, lived out the Atenean dictum of "being a man for others". At the expense of enduring a few blows himself, he pleaded with the boys and tried to convince them that they have the wrong guy, and that Marcel was a good boy, incapable of the accusation they were throwing at him. The mauling miraculously stopped for around 15 seconds (probably around the same time I was praying for him) which gave another brave classmate the chance to grab then bloody Marcel by the arm and pull him out of the circle of tormentors. They ran for it and left in a car with their other classmates who were too stunned and traumatized themselves. Minutes after escaping the assailants, Marcel continued receiving phone calls through his mobile phone, wherein he was harassed and taunted. The calls and text have persisted until a week ago.

After our preliminary investigation, we discovered that the aggressors are members of TGF or "The Good Fraternity", a loose group of high school students (boys and a few girls) who frequent the party scene, SOME of whom are reputed to be bullies, war freaks, alcoholics, possibly drug users, and carriers of deadly weapons such as guns, knives, tasers, etc. Apparently, some of them use this strategy of bullying helpless-looking boys in the guise of being gallant men saving a damsel in distress for having been "disrespected". The exact same scenario by the same people happened to a fellow Atenean at a different party a few weeks earlier. Many other boys from other schools have experienced beating from the same group for the most senseless reason as having been ogled at or having flexed biceps and triceps to the annoyance of the bullies.

What happened to Marcel was a nightmare not only to him but to ourselves as parents. My husband who is working in Canada can only cry in helplessness at not having been around to defend or at the very least comfort him.

I cannot sleep soundly knowing that our sons and daughters are prone to being swallowed by profligacy. Did you parents know that kids nowadays dance "spooning" style? Did you know that there are mobile bars for rent that serve "mocktails" or full fledged cocktails and beer in bubble containers to our young teen-agers unmindful of the alcohol prohibition for minors (ask Sober Club, Elation, Party Fuel, Club Fishbone, Booze, Event Shaker, On the Rocks, etc.). I even heard that open parties are now being used by pushers as their market for mood altering wares. I didn't even know that the Greenmeadows party that Marcel attended was entitled "Lust", which is one of a series of seven parties named after the seven deadly sins. I was shocked at having found out the organizers' preference for their party names.

I have vowed to make this an advocacy. We are filing a complaint with the authorities about the matter, not only to seek justice for my son, but to stop this culture of violence and immorality among the youth.

I would have wanted to treat this as privately and as quietly as I can but recent developments have forced me to do otherwise. I came across this blog site which made my stomach turn at seeing how insensitive, frivolous, and unprincipled the authors of this entry and its supporters are. Log on and read for yourselves:
http://c24others.multiply.com/journal/item/40/Read_this

Rumors are spreading like wildfire and the ugly misinformation is causing yet another trauma on my son. Some rumors are going around about his being too drunk to have control of himself, thus the molestation. To correct the defamation being spread, and to give these STOYA boys who have a lot of growing up to do a piece of my mind, allow me categorically say that:

1) My son NEVER molested anyone and we can prove this to the hilt. The bloggers didn't even give him the benefit of the doubt by adding the world "allegedly". They wrote it as if it were a fact. Instead of supporting your fellow Atenean, you are pushing him towards the furnace by spreading this lie.

2) My son, who, for one week after the assault, endured nightmares and anxiety attacks over possible retaliatory acts by perceived sympathetic blue blooded members of TGF NEVER squealed on any one to the APSA. He bore his psychological injuries which far outweighed the physical wounds with dignity and bravery. He never even brought up the incident with his football coach who benched him during two crucial games for having missed a week's practice clueless that Marcel was waiting for the contusions on his head to heal. For all I know, he was also possibly avoiding aggressive tussling, inevitable in the sport, which might stir fearsome memories. He felt so down but didn't want his coach to think he was making excuses for his absences.

3) I never complained verbally, or in writing, to APSA regarding what happened to my son knowing that STOYA per se, is not the enemy. I simply wrote a letter of excuse for Marcel's two-day absence while he was recovering from the trauma.

4) I never accused STOYA of harassment when they approached Marcel in an effort to convince me to tell Mr. Dennis Dator of their innocence regarding the mauling. I simply felt that it is futile to make that appointment since I never filed a complaint against them in the first place.

5) To say that "it can only take ONE person to destroy a party. All he/she needs to do is to tell his/her parents to call up the school, name names and say drugs or what not has been going around" reeks of a distorted sense of values. It's as if parties are the end all and be all of life's existence. Never mind if a person gets hurt...the show must go on! Besides, I never did what they accuse me of doing.

6) Do you honestly think that this line "The police can always be ordered to go to a party to end it" is preventive or is it a curative solution to a done disaster which only takes a few minutes to happen? Hunky bouncers and security guards were around when Marcel was beaten up. What good did they do?

7) From STOYA: "Pucha, everyday people DIE due to far more worse (sic)incidents than mere fist fights and now people start making this such a HUGE deal since it happened to someone close to them?"
Response: What if the blow on Marcel's head were a tad stronger than they were causing brain damage? Would that be big deal enough to warrant your attention?

8) From STOYA: "don't call us insensitive and immoral for promoting alcohol under the age of 18. You've never had a shot of vodka or a cold glass of beer? Don't be a hypocrite and lie. It's part of high school"
Response: The law is the law and it was created for a reason, and it is meant to be adhered to, otherwise suffer penalties.

9) "Also, It's the parents' choice to allow their children to go and do these things so if you have a problem with parties, don't allow your children"
Response: Parents unwittingly allow their children to attend these parties without the knowledge of the imminent dangers that abound in such parties, thus, my cause of letting it be known. No matter how well we try to raise our children, they sometimes make the wrong, stubborn choices and succumb to peer pressure thinking that what is prevalent is "cool", or is acceptable.

10) STOYA, your entrepreneurial spirit is partly admirable. "Dreams of creating seven parties in 10 months". However, if your ventures are money making, may I ask if you give out receipts to your patrons? Do you pay taxes to the BIR? Maybe this is another angle worth looking at.

Dear STOYA boys and supporters, I hope you broaden your minds a little bit more and see where concerned school authorities and parents are coming from. You, our dear boys are gifts from God entrusted to us for guidance and moulding. Our commitment to our Maker, and to the Giver of life is to lead you back to Him in life eternity. It's true that life is full of risks, that life is well lived if freedom abounds, and that it is important to stand by what we believe in. But as graduating students of a highly reputable Catholic school for which your parents toil hard to make your enrolment possible, I would have hoped that you had loftier beliefs that you would adamantly fight for.

Year in, year out, you learn in CLE that free will has its limitations. As minors your care rests on those who are supposedly more ripe in wisdom. If we can shield you from as much pain, suffering and harm as we can, we will do so by all means because that is an expression of LOVE. You may sulk all you want but take it like a man. Like you all said, you will be adults in a few months time anyway. Start acting like one!


Yours truly,

MRS. CELINE PIEZAS

42 comments:

Myraine said...

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Anonymous said...

Here's the correct link to the blog: http://mikalai.livejournal.com/41847.html

Anonymous said...

i read the blog above http://mikalai.livejournal.com/41847.html

so, greenmeadows and valle verde village associations pala allow teenagers to drink alcoholic beverages inside their villages.

interesting.

what do the homeowners have to say about their officers leasing away their peace and quiet to drunk teenagers?

let the entrepreneurial spirit live on?

Anonymous said...

I've read the entire story of both parties (this one and STOYA's) and I must say that Mrs. Piezas, you are in complete denial. Your son is a high shool student (or college, of which I am not sure) and even my parents are aware of the fact that high school parties that ocur here in the Philippines and in the U.S. (since I am both Filipino and Amerian) involve items such as alcohol, drugs, weapons, etc. And because of that, it is the reason as to why I am not allowed to attend such events. I am a complete outside party and I do not attend neither Ateneo nor Assumption. I just so happened to have been sent a link to this site and I was completely shocked as to how you believe you can get away with thinking that high school parties do not involve horrid vices. Although this is my opinion, it does not mean that I agree with what was done to your son. I feel that what had happened to him is absolutely inexcusable however it is not the fault of the party organizers but the fault of those who had committed the act of violence.
Besides those feelings, I do hope that your son is now rid of the cuts and bruises that he has endured and that nothing else evolves with his head in terms of obtaining brain damage. I will be sure to pray for him and for God to disallow actions such as these to occur.

Anonymous said...

dear miss celine piezas,

i just finished reading your part of the story and the version of STOYA's.

and i must say that you are denying so much that it is not your fault that this incident happened to your son. but still, as a mother, you should be responsible enough to know the party that your son is attending. i read a line from your letter stating that you didn't even know the title of the party. you should have been more responsible enough to ask for the details of the party. i'm not saying that it is your fault. but i'm saying that you shouldn't blame this on the organizers but you should take on consideration ypur role as a mother.

Anonymous said...

partly, the parents have the mistakes for allowing his son go to the party that supposed to be limited to adult of legal age because they served alcohol but sometimes it is inevitable for parents to lock their children and not have social experiences, it part of growing up. Organizer have also their fault because as ORGANIZER part of organizing is the security. i think next time they should provide a waver for all who wants to attend the party and have it sign by the parents in case they are under of legal age. Obviously, carrying illegal weapon is strictly prohibited under out law. Sometimes guys lets have some common sense, everyone is the player in this case anyway.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Hey People,

I Tried to talk to one of the stoya members which is the son of my classmate back when I was in college. I asked him what was really happening to their group and how the school authorities are taking it, how they feel about whats happening and such. This boy told me that he himself, was really scared, confused and pissed. He said that he was scared cause, of course, instead of the parents trying teach these kids what should not be done, some parents are threatening to bring the cops and arrest these kids. (He said "Eh tita, did you read the blog? they're saying na parang shit that are happening in the present just traumatize MARCEL even more. Eh how about us? They're not considering our side. Which was in the first place, not our fault. it was not our party and they just keep on blaming stoya for everything that happened." ) He was confused cause he really doesn't know what to do. and pissed cause the parents are creating things that just worsens the gravity of the situation He also told me some facts that might help most parents understand the situation.

1.) Lust is a party made by Povedans

2.) Stoya made a party on the same night as Lust

3.) Marcel got beat up in Lust

4.) Stoya Boys were not in Lust (Because they had their own party to manage)

5.) TGF (also known as "THE GOOD FRAT" are not ateneans.)

6.) The Blog that was created in the multiply site of stoya was not an entry to highlight what happened to Marcel. It was a blog to tell all the stoya-party-goers that they are not going to make parties for now. (Because of the events that are happening)


Hope this helps

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Comment on the whole incident is that it might be another De la Paz-Pangandaman Valley Golf case. The narration from the victim as in the VG case has the tendency of being exagerated with some facts withheld.

Marcel might have initiated it and got beat up and got the short end of the stick. Still does not justify beating him up.

Though many many relatives can vouch for Marcel's character, at that age where alcohol was being served(?) could he have had one sip too many? Would he admit to have had a beer or two?

From the perspective of action-reaction, cause and effect. This does not justify beating him up still. As to the 20 arm to arm, this could be just the party goers out of the typical pinoy curiosity were specators.

I guess we need to look at facts first and validate them before letting our emotions get in the way.

Anonymous said...

Honestly, you TGF losers are a bunch of short people with major insecurities. I've met people like you, and heck, you are short. That's why it takes 20 of you to beat up a single person.

I know who the people involved are and I'm not happy. I have a frat of my own as well, but I will not involve them for this incident. I know three of you who participated in this brutality. I hope you're reading this because I will hurt you in the next week.

"Boola!" Only I say this word, so if the 3 of you are reading this, you better avoid me.

Anonymous said...

If STOYA was in no way responsible for what happened in LUST, then why the hell would they post a gramatically incorrect letter, not to mention, a letter full of BS? These kids aren't called kids for no reason, are they? And for those "macho men" (SARCASM HERE) who were involved in this incident, why not try to take entrance exams first? Ang yayabang niyo kala niyo may ibabatbat kayo sa college? Life, my dears, is not all about drinking nor smoking nor partying. If you make those three your mantra, then all of you are worthy to be called losers. Atenista pa naman kayo, sayang lang ang bobo niyo.

And to that frat, if you are really that good, as you claim it, then in the first place, why such a lousy name? What's this you're trying to do, trying to publicize such a small scale group? Now that you're "known", be happy to know that the best frats in town are looking just for you, for ruining the prestige that fraternities have established through the years.

And to that STOYA boy who admitted he's scared, you have all the reason to be afraid. Next time, kung gagawa kayo ng kalokohan, HAVE THE BALLS.

Mommy Aya said...

Thank you for your comments, opinions, points of view, insights, and violent reactions. I will send these to my cousin Celine and let her and her family know your points. However, please refrain yourselves in posting obscene words in expression of how you feel toward the incident and the people involved, else they will be deleted.

To make it clear TGF group are the real perpetrators. STOYA is another story, although very much related.

Again thank you and we appreciate your time and concern. We are happy that a lot of people express their sympathy as well as their constructive analysis on this matter.

Anonymous said...

Please also let Celine know that she has just ruined the social life of her son. A lot of people his age strongly dislike him for the slander Celine has been spreading.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the comment of the person before me. Marcel's social life is ruined. His name and his mom's name have become a joke among the high school crowd nowadays. People actually use "Marcel Piezas" and "Celine Piezas" when making jokes or when they're getting mad about all these open party scandals (that she took way out of hand). So if that was Celine's goal, to ruin her son and ruin their family's name, then congratulations Celine, galing mo! Party tayo! Ay wait, wag nalang, baka magalit ka pa.

Anonymous said...

This whole issue is a farse. Marcel did molest the girl in Lust. I don't get why Marcel is the "victim" here when he should be the one punished. Imagine what the girl feels.
CELINE as been talking bullshit and ruining our lives. FOR WHAT? JUSTICE? Please. Does she think her son was the first and ONLY kid to get beaten up in a party? Get over yourselves. This story is so overly hyped up.

Anonymous said...

celine, you over reacting. okay, what was done to your son is wrong. TGF is wrong for beating him up but you should reall teach your son to stop being such a pervert. who wouldnt get mad if they see their friend being touched by some boy? i think if you had a daughter and some boy starts touching her, you would want that boy beaten up. your story is too one sided. get over yourself and try looking at other sides of this issue. you just made yourself sound so pathetic to everyone.

Anonymous said...

People say that your nephew is a pervert. Step out of the mindset that he didnt or couldnt do anything wrong and consider that fact that you would want someone to beat the ---- out of the guy who gropes your daughter? IF YOU DONT THAN THATS A LIE.

Look maybe CELINE has a point by the underage drinking... but isn't it condoned during NEW YEARS EVE PARTIES? Birthday Parties? Christmas Parties? I'm sure in the confines of your family... underage cousins, nephews, nieces and such all have taken alcohol. Don't be so hypocritical as to deny that fact.

Her side is just the side of her son. Why would Marcel tell her the WHOLE thing? knowing that he'd be at fault in SOME way.

Why is she targeting STOYA when they had nothing to do with it? She should be blaming the people who threw LUST or TGF.

Anonymous said...

as a parent, thanks to this incident that all "open" parties have all been cancelled...hope this will not a ningas kugon so these open parties would syop.
but as i have heard from some HS students, kawawa naman si Marcel Piezas, he is being avoided...why kaya when you are roght you end up feeling you are the one who is wrong? will pray for this boy.

Anonymous said...

i am a first year student in college and i have very much grown up with these kind of parties an honestly, there are worse things that happen and there's so much emphasis on this, it getting kind of ridiculous. yes, the boy got beaten up, but this is a very RARE instance and open parties have been going on since i was in high school.

parents know what kind of parties their kids attend. they've been to that stage before when they were that age. if they really wanna be protective of their kids,then they shouldn't allow them to go. i honestly think there's more to the story than marcel being the "innocent angel" in this situation.think of a boy's motive for going to such parties: meet girls, drink,maybe do drugs,socialize, grind with them, or just meet new people (yeah right). boys will be boys. and of course the mom would believe her son wholeheartedly because he is, after all, her son.

things like these can happen anywhere, minors are in clubs and bars all over metro manila. not to mention the little house get togethers as we teenagers call it: "inumans." if legal actions are to be taken regarding this matter then even the bars all around and parents that allow alcohol in their homes should also be part of the blame.

don't blame this on the party organizers or the open parties itself, because these things can happen ANYWHERE you allow your child to go to. if you're so against this, don't allow your teens to go to such parties. trying to fight alcohol,smoking and drugs is tantamount to impossible because it will always be there, i mean look at illegal drugs today.

Anonymous said...

there will always be sides

I myself do not wish to choose one, for the facts and fakes of this matter cannot all be accurately determined since the articles i have read in the internet (such as multiply) are magnets for a handful of pretenses.

I am a high school student, and many of my friends are telling me that they are disappointed that open parties are/or might be band. They also have pointed out that Marcel must be in a grave situation right now, and that he is such a "loser".

Anyone who cares for him should know that these insights from students are based on the "kwentos" that have roamed around the schools - "kwentos" that are not precise most of the time. Hopefully, everyone will let this pass eventually, or Marcel will be forever labeled.

Lastly, i would like to say that blaming is an unhealthy habit we have adopted to. It mostly occurs if there is an excess of pride; people will always have an urge to be THE CORRECT ONE. Let me show you how easy it is to manipulate blame.

1. It's Marcel's fault for not being completely honest about the activities (drinking, spooning? or grinding) he would engage in the party, LUST, when asking for permission to go there.

2. It's the mother's fault for not knowing all the details of the party.

3. It's the bouncer's fault for not stopping the fight.

4. It's the village's fault for allowing the minors to drink.

5. HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE AT THE PARTY? THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY AROUND 100+ PEOPLE PRESENT AT THE BEATING, YET NO ONE INTERVENED TO HELP. NOT HELPING IS THE SAME AS JOINING THE FIGHT. INDIFFERENCE AT TIMES LIKE THAT IS A SIN. EVERYONE SHOULD GET THEIR MORALS RIGHT.

may God save us

Anonymous said...

PSSSSSS!!! STOYA!!! TAKE OVER NYO MUKA NYO!!! TARA GAME TAYO! TITIGAS NYO HA! BADING PA NG PANGALAN NYO!D NYO KAYA SOLO NO KASI MGA BAKLA KAYO!!! TINGAN NYO LNG BILANG NA ORAS NYO..TAGO NA KAYO!!! WALA AKO PAKI KUNG KANINONG SIDE! MADAMI PA KAYONG AANIHING BIGAS! KALA NYO SINO KAYO!!! IMA FUCKING MS13 BITCHES!!! FIRST PINOY TO ENTER MS13...ILL SEE YOU BOYS IN HELL!!!!

Anonymous said...

EVERYONE is at fault in this issue. EVERYONE should stop pointing fingers at each other. Mrs.Piezas if you we're the girl MOLESTED [yes, i am sure she was, I know the girl] what would you have done? and Mrs.Piezas if you believe that your son COULD NOT have done anything like that, then he must've been VERY VERY DRUNK. which just goes to show how bias and flawed your letter was. If you REALLY did care and knew that your son did not do anything wrong, then you shouldn't have posted this letter and allowed it to spread everywhere but instead brought it to the proper authorities and waited. In ALL CASES, evidences and testimonies are kept private as to protect EVERYONE involved.

Pedestrian Observer GB said...

The response that I see here especially coming from minors truly is alarming and disturbing. Underage drinking is illegal period, no ifs and no buts about it. Organizing an event where alcohol is served to minors is considered child endangerment and these aberrant behavior must not be condoned.

Hopefully what the minors are yapping here with deluded reality does not reflect the general mindset of todays youth or we are going down the path of retrogression before we even get out of the rut we are in.

I say ban "Open Party" that is more of a dumb party and minors should not be allowed to organize events without parental or adult supervision.

Anonymous said...

Certainly, I feel pity towards Marcel Piezas for the physical and psychological injuries that he acquired from the incident. (I wouldn't call it a brawl since you didn't really mention any exchange of punches.) I understand that you, his family, cares so much for him. I would prolly stand up for my younger brothers and sisters as well but in a different approach.

I believe however that before involving myself and publishing my son's story, I must clarify ALL the facts and info of the actual incident. This clarification, I believe, is needed especially now where numerous versions or rumors of the incident has been spreading.

1. Your Version: Marcel was the victim. TGF were the suspects. Girl A is a liar.

2. Other Version: Marcel was a total pervert who groped Girl A. Girl A was the victim who told her cousin. Naturally, cousin gets infuriated and stands up for his cousin. Cousin is hero.

3. Other Version: Marcel, the best son in the world and who upholds the virtue of the Jesuit Brothers, got beaten down by a group of boys since Marcel turned out to be the usual perverted high school boy who gets physically intimate with the ladies.

4. Many more out there.

Clearing out the facts is thus imperative because your advocacy also seems to lack the side of the students and whoever are involved in the other side of your story.

As you know or may not know, throughout history, the youth has always been suppressed. And, usually, this kind of open parties are where we try to find our sense of independence, identity and niche in the high school crowd. We mingle. We dance (the kind of dance that we do now is influenced by media so don't blame us. blame the adults who sexualize everything and make smoking or drinking seem so cool.) We try our first bottle of beer or first cig stick. We may like it ...or not. But hey, we are just trying. We do not become full pledge alcoholics or druggies right after our first bottle or cig stick. And, like it or not, we'll eventually DO GRIND others, DO DRINK and DO SMOKE. (don't be in denial.) My point is do not act surprised that open parties involved a little bit of alcohol, cigs and grinding. I suppose that this happened to you as well. Plus, you have to consider the media-based urban culture which we are living in. (Hence, go and figure out now where they prolly got the idea of naming it LUST.) Thus,please dont say that peer pressure's the only factor that influences young boys like Marcel to go to a party where he can grind with three girls or four. For sakes, he probably knows what masturbation and sex are already.

bottom line is, you shouldn't just blame the young people, the schools and authorities. The MEDIA is at GREAT FAULT as well.

Then, the entire issue where Marcel is accused of being a pervert by groping the girl should have been settled already. Were you able to talk to the girl and to her family? If she was really groped or not, Marcel should deal with it and discern his actions.Also, I believe that the way you described the members of the TGF is quite discriminatory. DO you really think that describing them as war-freaks, druggies and alcoholics would do them good? Have you ever thought about the consequences that these boys (and girls) have to go through? Psychologically, they will certainly experience discrimination among peers. This is perhaps they will be feared by the others. You are basically labeling them as the bad crowd of the community and project an impression that they must be "removed". Instead of them learning from their mistake, I believe that they will never ever forget the day you broadcasted and published about them. The thought of how juevenile they seem may taint them for a long while because of a spreading blog. Probably, in the future, they will either turn out as how you described them or will forget and improve on their lives. Do you get my point? You dont even know if all of them are really involved in such scandalous practices. Some of them may even be nicer than your nephew or may even be an honors student. You shouldn't have generalized.

However, I still pity your nephew. And, the boys should have apologized.

In addition, before actually generalizing what happens in the open parties of exclusive schools, why don't you try to chaperone for one? I myself was supposed to be a bartending in one of the deadly capital sins party series. I was supposed to be an assitant bartender. And, I admit that we do serve alcohols but we responsibly distribute it. In other words, a glass of spirte vodka would contain 5% gsm blue, 70% vodka and 25% ice. We make sure to it that no one clinically gets drunk in the party because we are aware that we serve minors. (drunk minors mean trouble.) And, they really dont get drunk. Those who do get drunk either cheat and sneak in the bartending area for more booze or were already drunk prior the party. We understand that the kids just want to experience this part of their high school life. Also, the posters would say "freeflowing" because it is a pure marketing strategy. BUT in TRUTH, FREEFLOWING is more like COME-EARLY-BEFORE-THE-MOCKBOOZE-RUNS-OUT (most of the time, there's no more drinks by 1030 pm).

AND, used condoms? How sure are you that they belong to the kids? It's a village clubhouse which is open for any resident. Your only evidence is its proximity to the party. What if they were just blown up as silly balloons?

So what is really your plan of action against these open parties? Are you seriously up for banning these parties, especially for exclusive schools? If you are, I plead that you don't. A fair resolution must be settled before rash petitions of banning such parties. Have you weighed the PROS and CONS? Certainly, you have set a good line up of the negative consequences. So, I'll try to share my side of the PROS. First, these parties are called open parties because they are usually fundraisers. If they weren't fundraisers, they are usally called soirees. We make it open to everyone because we need maximum profit. We want to earn because the money is usually needed in order to fund a certain project, usually for charity. (we want to make a difference but we have no money. so we generate money through a means that can be done by high school studs.)

In addition, most of these open parties are planned by exclusive schools because boys wants to meet girls; vice versa. you dont want your nephew to end up in a girl-less world, indeed. And, it's an opportunity to make new friends. An opportunity to see a crush even! Plus, these open parties have been organized since tea parties and soirees among exclsuive schools were introduced in this country. And, incidences of violent fights are low since the people who usually attend these parties do not want to deal with trouble (or else they'll be grounded). But ... yes, yes, fights are still inevitable. BUT most of the time, people who are involved in these fights settle among themselves. They dont affect everyone.... so the party goes on!


All I can say is that: absolute banning of these open parties would be like telling your 7 year old kid that there's no Santa Claus.

Again, I pity your nephew. I do. I just wonder how he'll live the rest of his high school life.

Anonymous said...

a couple of things...
1. in case you couldn't read between the lines, you just ruined your nephew's social life. for good. just by naming him, you fueled a situation of intense scrutiny, insult and ridicule for his next 2 or 3 years in school. hell, maybe even more.
congratulations! as much as you think you are helping (and as much as he is grateful...for NOW), he will eventually resent you for the next couple events you have triggered. good luck, dear aunt. we know you mean well. you just failed at this attempt.
2. yes, alcohol is illegal for minor. yes, so are all those other vices but since time and memorial, the youth have found ways to circumvent the system. hell, they couldn't fully ban it in america, what makes you think you can ban it from a whole generation? the solution isn't prohibition, its education. if you don't want situations wherein your child goes to a party naive and clueless (which i doubt he was), then you educate him. teach him how to handle his liquor. the whole allure of these things is the fact that its prohibited. its the thrill of rebelling against the system. let him learn from you not from someone else, and i guarantee you, the child will eventually get sick of it. hell, he'd probably be bored with it when the time comes.
key: REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY.
3. you may have started this rather misguided motion but trust this, there's always going to be a loophole. rather than wage a war on a generation thirsting for a fight against the "man", open up venues of communication. bridge the generation gap, and for god sakes, try to be more open-minded. look at the big picture.

and i do feel sympathy for the boy. however, i highly doubt he is completely innocent. the situation shouldn't have escalated to that extreme but there was no way that he came into that party as pristine white as you think.

Anonymous said...

I agree on what the previous writer commented. Sociopsychologically, you have affected your nephew's developmental growth as a teenager. You have interrupted to a situation which he should have dealt with (with your support). Indeed, his life was threatened but it does not have to result to this popularization of his defeat and sentiments. Let him grow and think about what happened.

And, now, every high school student knows MARCEL PIEZAS. He has indeed made a legacy which may give him the opportunity to rise as the hero or to fall into shame. Most likely it will be the latter.

He's in high school. It's an environment filled with cliques, bullies and gossip. It is a microcosm prototype of the real world where there will be the predators and the preys. And, your son is right now the prey...

Anonymous said...

although you have reason to believe mrs piezas, that marcel is not capable of ever groping a girl, I do agree with the previous comment-- have you tried communicating with the allegedly "dishonored" girl? have you ever tried to hear her side out? of three things that will make this seem a reasonable move, I am sure of:

1. Although you claim to know your son very well to the point of saying he can NEVER do that, such is NEVER the case. let me prove this to you mrs piezas by saying that you can search that world all over and I think the chances of you finding a parent who completely from bone, flesh, up to the soul know their child and the personalities of their offsprings are about one in five thousand. what are the chances then mrs. piezas that you are that parent belonging to one in a thousand? I for one can attest that parents may honestly think they know their kids through and through only to end end up devastated later on in life because there has been some dam*ing evidence that can completely attest to a personality and character of their offspring which is radically different from the character of which they thought their child possessed.

2. saying NEVER mrs. piezas, (that you are ABSOLUTELY certain); that there is a 0.0% chance that marcel could not have done the alleged groping is very difficult to prove simply because the terms NEVER and ABSOLUTE are very relative and therefore are difficult to ascertain. Ma'am, unless you can testify to every court in the country, to every parents' organization and students' organization that you know your son through and through to the point of knowing whether or not he has (even a little) knowledge of any sexually related activities such as (as mentioned in the previous comment by an anonymous user) masturbation, "spooning", and yes, even groping, you cannot say that marcel can never do that and so yes, this does deem a lapse in sound judgment on your part by not asking or hearing out the side of the girl who is allegedly the source of all this fiasco.

3. How sure are you Mrs. Piezas that your son, marcel has told you the complete, unbiased account of the said "encounter"? Yes, I know and understand that as a mother, you are inclined to believe that your son who perhaps the moment he walked on your doorstep, appeared as the soul of innocence who has just been caught up in one of those random "violence" allegedly common in several organized open parties. however ma'am, think about it this on a different perspective also: has marcel ever shared everything (absolutely everything) about his life to you? the fact that he did not even mention the title of the party he was going to and what possible activities might transpire there suggests that your son from time to time also withhold information from you- information that can in any way affect him or his plans negatively.

These are only 3 reasons of why you should have considered also the side of the alleged cause of the encounter which in your account, was girl A before you sought to write a letter condemning her (girl A) and the alleged "attackers" of your son. 3 reasons-- and I'm sure there are many more that others out there think.

With regard to your concern about underage people drinking, I do understand your concern and in fact, I can almost believe that some parents do not know the fate that awaits their children in some parties since I myself never drank at parties during high school. be that as it may, mrs piezas, you also need to consider that there are different definitions of freedom. have you ever tried going over the several versions of freedom presented in the field of philosophy? there is one version in particular, which defines freedom to be absolute-- that we are free to do as we wish, only we have to be responsible enough to face the consequences of our actions. let us be realistic, ma'am: your son was free to drink, dance, and yes, even grope all he like at LUST, however he also needs to be responsible enough for his actions. I am not saying he did do these things, but I'm saying this just to prove the point that minors, even in parties, are free to do what they like and elders may not like what they choose to do but madame, welcome to the modern world. this is how things work today. and yes ma'am, I think that if your child is old enough to party, then yes, he's old enough to decide if he would have a taste of these so-called vices and see how it suits him.

regarding the subject of banning open parties, I think that hasty decisions should not be made because for one, as the previous comment said, these parties are mostly held as fundraisers for a lot of charitable causes. second, the media is partly to blame for hyping up this sexual angle of every little thing and in turn, organizers tend to adopt this maelstrom of sexual fantasies that the media has evoked in order to attract of course their target patrons, the youth who we can safely say fairly worships the media and most of what it delivers.

finally, I would like to extend my sincerest sympathies regarding the injuries your son has sustained in this untoward incident. TGF who is allegedly responsible for this, or I guess, whoever is truly responsible for this, is not justified in doing that to your son no matter what the transgression may have truly been. there is i believe, always a right place, time and manner to settle differences and I do agree that the party responsible for your son's injuries had a lapse in judgment in choosing the place, time and manner to handle this situation.

as a note to you mrs piezas, I think it is high time that you learn to become impartial in giving an account of what happened in light of the fact that you are so set out to condemn a number of kids, seemingly oblivious to the true extent and degree of their transgressions to your son and the reasons behind them. at this point, I guess when tempers are running high and emotions become too deeply involved, being objective is out of the question. however being impartial is another thing. it's important you listen to the other side of the story and then present both sides and let the reader make a judgment. always remember mrs piezas, that no (one) side alone, is the truth because as much as we hate to admit it, one thing that I guess we have all learned in life is that the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

furthermore, think also of what this whole fiasco is doing to your own son. by not choosing the right place, time and manner to handle this, you have practically made him a social pariah.I pity him, and all the cruelty he will endure for the rest of his life. most people have long memories especially for subjects such as this. In attempting to gain justice without grasping out the true severity of the problem, who really are involved and what really happened, you have managed in a way to taint the name piezas and sadly, at this point each time that name is mentioned, all that people remember is that there was this boy... and his mother who... (I think i need not continue since you probably get the picture)

Eclavu said...

Hi, after reading the whole report, we come to our conclusion that... we like butterflies. Good day to all.

Anonymous said...

JUST TO CORRECT EVERYONE, THE PARTY WAS NAMED 'LAST', YES IT WAS ORIGINALLY 'LUST' BECAUSE IT WAS PART OF THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS EVENTS BUT BECAUSE THE ORGANIZERS KNOWING BETTER OPTED TO CHANGE THE NAME FROM 'LUST' TO LAST.BECAUSE IT WAS INDEED ONE OF THE LAST PARTIES THEY WE'RE ORGANIZING.

the names of these parties such as the seven deadly sins do not represent what happens in these parties, these teenagers just find it new and different, or that this word has a ring to it. they never really go to a party because its called lust,gluttony,envy or anger. teenagers dont just say "Pare doon tayo mag party sa LUST, bet tayo mga babae dun Lustful" or "Pare dun na lang sa gluttony! kasi puro pagkain doon" that's just stupid and these organizers are too for naming their parties after these sins.

Anonymous said...

I am a high school student and may I say that Marcel Piezas is someone known to everyone in our school, probably to all teens around MM, in fact. I do pity him with what his mother has done to him. They should have kept his identity. A lot say his social life's ruined.

Anyways, why blame Stoya? They had another party on the same day so obviously, they wouldn't be in Last because they had to manage their own party. I know that Mrs. Piezas is a concerned mom wanting to help her son but there are more better ways in doing this. But no, she chooses to make it public. Thus, making everyone dislike Marcel. TGF is a group of people who think Partying is life and once someone disrespects them, they will be as low as six feet under. I think Mrs. Piezas should have not blamed other innocent people and schools.

And for the first paragraph; How sure was she that the used condoms were actually used for sex. I mean, to be honest as a high school student, I don't think anyone would do it there where everyone else could just see that. That would be very stupid of the couple to do... What if they were just playing with it? Was there exact proof that people really did it? I don't think so.

This email has been the topic for so long and it's sad how the story keeps getting twisted. I think they should have not just asked Marcel what happened and right there and then, they just made the case. No, they should have asked the organizers of Last their sides, too. Also those whom they know were present at the party.

Another issue upraised here is the illegal drinking of minors. I know that is wrong and should be stopped, too. I heard Open parties are now officially banned.

There were so much faults that have happened in this night and I hope that the truth would be prevailed. May God Bless us all. :)

Anonymous said...

As a parent of a former high school student from a private school mentioned in the open-party-scandal, I am somewhat glad and relieved that these parties are finally known by the public. During the high school days of my daughter, I and other parents were already very frustrated that these parties were going on with alcoholic beverages being served and without parental supervision.
Peer pressure is very strong among our children that sometimes peer acceptance is more important to them than parental approval. The party organizers would coerce their classmates to agree with their ideas, meaning alcoholic beverages and the absence of parents in these parties.
Sorry to say but there are parents who are totally clueless as to what is happening in their children’s lives. They do not make it their business to know who their children are with. They do not even know where their children are. There are also some misguided parents who believe that to be considered cool and close to their children they should be permissive and support their children in these parties, not realizing that what they are allowing is illegal, forgetting responsibility and accountability for the party goers.

Anonymous said...

To Stoya, TGF and high school students,

It is a pity that you forget that we, parents, were also teen-agers like you. Surely we know how you all feel and what you are going through because we have been through all that or whatever. We are aware of the impetuousness and imprudence of the young. Remember we were once young too. We know what it was like to hide the truth from our parents in our eagerness to be in, hip, cool or whatever the term you use now. When one is young, one has a tendency to omit details that are unsavory or negative from our parents. Thus our need to protect you, our children, from any inadvertent harm you might encounter. As parents our mission in life is to bring you up to be the best Christian citizens and adults. When you are self-sufficient and done with your education then and only then can your parents rest from our parental duties and heave a big sigh of relief that you are no longer our responsibility.

Even if and when you reach the so-called legal age of 18, be clear that you are still non-entities until you are self supporting and are tax payers. Therefore you have no authority to transact with any establishment without an adult signing as representative for your activities or parties. If and when contractual or monetary transactions are done by you without Parental Supervision with an establishment you must be aware that it is ILLEGAL. And any individual may and can call on the authorities to investigate your transactions and activities.

When Mrs. Piezas mentioned the BIR it is because she is aware that contractual or monetary transactions need to be done in an official manner. When you show surprise why the government has to be brought into the picture, you further underscore your callowness and lack of responsibility and accountability for your actions. You forget that there are always consequences for every choice or action.

Dear young ones, remember you still have a lot of growing up to do. As students, your education is your first priority. You may celebrate without restraint when you have your degree and diplomas in your hand, are self supporting and no longer the responsibility of your parents nor accountable to them.

Anonymous said...

I am a teenager. And Marcel Piezas is very infamous nowadays because of this incident. He is thought of more of a loser, than he was before. His mother made if even more dangerous for her son, because of what she has done. She has made everyone angry, and you never know when the next time he gets beaten up, because of what has happened.


I think this is all irrelevant.
It is unnecessary. High school will always be high school.
You can't change it. It is a part of life. Teenagers will always experiment, and try what is not allowed.

As to parties; all of these, drugs, sex and alcohol. Not all teenagers that go to parties do such things. It depends on the teen. Otherwise, if they want to do such things, you can do them in other places and not only in parties. They can do it in a house, in a sleepover, in the mall. Anywhere. You should not band these kinds of open parties, because some teenagers just really want to have fun, and not commit such actions. Think about it, maybe you're child has never gone to a party, but does she have a boyfriend? Do you know what they do? No. You don't. Or Maybe you're child is not allowed to go out, have you ever smelled his fingers? What if they smell like smoke? What if he and his friends were smoking in the park, when you thought they were just playing ball? Do you get what I mean, Parties are not only the places that teens can do these horrid things. Whether you try to get rid of open parties, alcohol, drugs and sex will always be there. Some bad influences will always have them, so they can try them whenever they want. But some, those who are strong enough, will not.

Anonymous said...

Ang gulo-gulo.

Bow.

Anonymous said...

SAVE OPEN PARTIES. I agree with the comments written above that are defending our (high schoolers) side especially the assistant bartender one. I drink and go to these parties with the FULL KNOWLEDGE of my parents, they warned me and they trust me that I wont overdo it and I dont and I get lines of 9, go to church, in student government, have a strong faith in God. I didnt turn out so bad, so dont generalize us. I am a good friend of your nephew, but it does raise some questions of TGF's motive to beat him up. I mean a lot of guys danced with their "groupies" hilarious btw how they called their girl friends that, but they never beat them up. TGF is stupid, we all know that, but I guess everything was biased. ALL THE BLOGS ARE MARCEL MARCEL YOUTH IS IMMORAL yaddiyaddiya. HELLO? what about the whole reason this thing is about, the girl? No one knows who she is nor her side. What if marcel really did grope her? Its hard not to think about that. :( Taking away our right to party wont protect us from doing something else.

Anonymous said...

Firstly, everyone's overlooked the existence and the role of that girl, Ms. A, in the story. If Marcel did, by any means, molest her, she could've reacted right already right there and then. But let's just say that she was too shocked to respond to the molestation right away, I still think that it wouldn't have taken that long for a dispute to occur--indoor. Then again, I will not judge timing and skip pondering with that detail. But I could not help but wonder why the girl insisted on taking a picture with Marcel. Pointing out the fact that she did either meant...
ONE: she had it taken as an evidence that they did dance together.
TWO: some kind of flirty-friendly-act (yeah sure).
THREE: Marcel molested her already and it was her "way of remembering" who the guy was so she could tell her knightS in shining armor about it.
If it is true that one of the "gimiks" of the fraternity was to save a damsel-in-distress just to be able to start a brawl over a kid who's helpless, then I guess they had their bad eye on Marcel for quite some time already during the night.

Secondly, if the dancing style these days is "spooning" or grinding, touching isn't really an unexpected inclusion to that.

Thirdly, I wonder, of all the boys there, why Marcel? One who dint have too many friends to come to his rescue? For sure, that frat wouldn't have achieved or even executed their "gimik" over someone who they know could actually fight back and beat them.

Yes, it was wrong if he molested the girl. It was also wrong that those kids beat him up.
Obviously, if you were molested, you'd like to beat up the molester. But in this case, I think it needs more scrutiny.

Lastly, it's totally wrong to serve drinks or push drugs to minors. Let's accept it though, people can always get their way out of that linient law, especially in a lackadaisical environment. It's a parent's job to protect their kids from these things. I know because I was raised in a different kind or norm. I'm 23 but I (even my brothers) have been able to grow up with a kind of control in my system no matter where I am or what kind of friends I'd have or be with. I have a college group who parties day in and day out, but they know what their limits are.

Fact is, the younger the generations get, the wilder they come as well. But there are still a few who would rather not blend into that so-called "coolness". And I guess it's because of how they were raised and how they perceive life.
But I assure you, when these kids grow up, they'd come to realize and rethink all their actions. I just hope that Maturity hits them in the head in timing with their age.

Anonymous said...

I actually did think that this issue was already over until I saw the news on ABS-CBN two days ago.

We've forgotten about this already and yet you guys bring it up again. As a high school student, I do go to open parties but must I say that I am really sure that people do not have sex in these parties. That is one of the most stupidest things anyone could do in a party. Yes, there were condoms around during that party stated in the first paragraph but how sure were all of you that was used for those reasons? Were there tests for it? I highly doubt that. People go to open parties to have a break from all the stress in our High school life and what we do is we just dance. Yes, there maybe alcohol served but it is our choice and responsibility and we know that. Our schools and parents teach us how to take care of ourselves, you know. It's all just trust and understanding. I don't think Marcel really understood the situation. The girl would not have told her cousin if there was really nothing wrong.

As for that TGF group, blame them. Don't put everyone else on the blame.

Oh and another point, how sure were they that AC held that party? Why don't you check the clubhouse and see for yourselves that the reservation was not an Assumption student.

High school will always be high school no matter what generation. The more you stop us, it makes us wonder and rebel. I pity Marcel because people who don't even know him already hate him. His social life's ruined, really. His mom just went over the top..

I say don't ban open parties. My parents allow me to go there with full responsibility of myself. It's just a matter of acceptance of the parents. We, high school students just want a break from all the works we're given.

Anonymous said...

The only ones to blame here are those parents like you who allow their children to attend these open parties. Don't blame the teenagers for you yourselves raised them. But it seems like in this day and age, your children are raising you.

Anonymous said...

I have mixed feelings with everything that has happened here since there are too many reason why these things happened.

Yeah, I grew up just like most HS kids here right now, we partied hard, we got high, we did stuff that we're not proud of. But hey, that's why we're kids. They need guidance. I'm not saying that these are bad, that would make me a hypocrite, but even w/o the parents, be responsible. HS is the time to be responsible for your actions, and HS kids aren't that stupid right?

I do side on the others that it is also the mom's fault for letting Marcel go to that party. HOWEVER, it seems that Marcel's mom was being kind enough as a mother to let his son go to that party since he did ask for permission. Parents these days wouldn't even allow the kids to go to those parties. And it would be better for the parents to know where their son is going rather than the kid sneaking out to party. If the kid did sneak out, what if something happens to him and the parents didn't know about it? So I guess for the mom, Marcel asking for permission gave her comfort so she rewarded him by letting him go to that party.

Next would be the bouncers and guards around. WTF are those guys doing? Even if Marcel is or is not the victim here, those bouncers and guards should've stopped the fight. Hell, even the people there didn't do anything. You kids act so cool there at the party, and when something bad happens, you immediately realize you left your balls at your home. Come on guys, grow some legs, better yet some balls too. Sheesh. Hope that when you kids grow up, and you have a child, I just hope that when something happens to your kids, people will idly watch your kids suffer while doing nothing.

To the TGF kids, don't act cool, you ain't on top of the world. When you reach college, you will learn that you are mere maggots in this world, and your frat will mean nothing to the world. You act so brave when you have the numbers, but when you fight someone, don't be a fag and use numbers. 20 against 1 isn't something to be proud of right?

You kids do talk a lot and talk big. But you'll realize everything when you grow up. And when something very similar happens again, you'll be placed on the same shoes as some of the older people here.

Should open parties be banned? I don't think so, it's an overreaction to this incident. But next time, it should be better prepared and should also have a RESPONSIBLE adult's supervision. But if it can't be helped, if these kids wouldn't learn, then that is the time to ban it.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the comment above me regarding TGF. I used to get scared of their group cause they seemed to act so tough and shit but after analyzing this incident. I feel so low for them. Their a bunch of cowards and they think they're all that. I heard college fraternities are out looking for them for ruining their name.